a_yaja
06-25 02:02 PM
Gurus,
A lot of information has been posted regarding items required for I-485 filing. However, I was not able to find one that was broken down form-wise. Hence, I came up with a list after going through the three forms individually. Please help me correct it by changing wrong info/ adding any ommisions on my part.
I-485 Check List
� Birth Certificate
� Copy of page with nonimmigrant visa
� Photos � 2 nos.
� Write A# or name with a pencil on the back of the photos
� Finger Printing (this is done after the I-485 is filed)
� Medical Exam Form (I-693)
� Form G-325A (this does not have a check list)
Evidence of Status
o Copy of I-94 showing admission to the United States
o Copy of approval of I129 extension (H1B extension notice) for primary
o Copy of approval of I539 (H4 extension)
� Employment Letter from Employer (original)
Evidence of eligibility
o Copy of I-140 approval (primary applicant)
o Copy of Marriage Certificate (derivative status)
� Filing Fee
I-131 Check List
� Govt. ID (driver�s lic. Or passport)
� AOS Receipt (not required for first time filing along with I-485 form)
� Photos � 2 nos.
� Write A# or name with a pencil on the back of the photos
� Letter explaining why you require AP
� Filing Fee
I-765 Check List (submit in following order)
� Copy of I-94 (front and back)
� Copy of last EAD (for renewal only)
� Photos � 2 nos.
� Write A# or name with a pencil on the back of the photos
� Filing Fee
A lot of information has been posted regarding items required for I-485 filing. However, I was not able to find one that was broken down form-wise. Hence, I came up with a list after going through the three forms individually. Please help me correct it by changing wrong info/ adding any ommisions on my part.
I-485 Check List
� Birth Certificate
� Copy of page with nonimmigrant visa
� Photos � 2 nos.
� Write A# or name with a pencil on the back of the photos
� Finger Printing (this is done after the I-485 is filed)
� Medical Exam Form (I-693)
� Form G-325A (this does not have a check list)
Evidence of Status
o Copy of I-94 showing admission to the United States
o Copy of approval of I129 extension (H1B extension notice) for primary
o Copy of approval of I539 (H4 extension)
� Employment Letter from Employer (original)
Evidence of eligibility
o Copy of I-140 approval (primary applicant)
o Copy of Marriage Certificate (derivative status)
� Filing Fee
I-131 Check List
� Govt. ID (driver�s lic. Or passport)
� AOS Receipt (not required for first time filing along with I-485 form)
� Photos � 2 nos.
� Write A# or name with a pencil on the back of the photos
� Letter explaining why you require AP
� Filing Fee
I-765 Check List (submit in following order)
� Copy of I-94 (front and back)
� Copy of last EAD (for renewal only)
� Photos � 2 nos.
� Write A# or name with a pencil on the back of the photos
� Filing Fee
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ujjvalkoul
03-07 03:24 PM
at the time when the PD becomes current....and u have used AC21 and now work for new employer. how would the USCIS know. Only way for them to know if to ask for a Employment letter(w/Job Duties, salary etc) and if they notice its not the sponsoring empoyer, they will look at it more closely....By the time all this happens you could be into the next month when you PD could have retrogressed back to 1900 again.....so as I see it....unless USCIS approved GC first thing w/o asking for additional info...is the best case scenario....
delhikadesi
06-10 09:36 PM
done
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pray
08-17 08:55 AM
Chill guys just kidding no point getting worked up about all this.I know it's causing a lot of angst.The best course of action is to get back to our lives and let the chips fall as they may.
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srkamath
07-13 10:42 AM
Keep in mind two things. Many, quite possibly most of the July VB fiasco filed 485s have not been processed yet, Eb2 or EB3 India. There have been more recently (in the past couple of months) but still not most. A good number of those filers had earlier PDs.
The quarterly statutory quota for EB2 I or C is so puny (something like 700 visas) that any movement would almost entirely be dependent on the Eb1 and EB2ROW overflow. That is why I feel, once this next two months pass, we will see dates back in 2004 for EB2. Maybe not quite back in April, but sometime in the middle to later 2004. However we could see PDs move at a healthy clip for EB2 I and C next year. It will take most of next years overflow to clear up the EB2 backlog in my view.
They have no reason to pull the dates back. Most 2004, 2005, part 2006 people got to apply during the july07 fiasco. In the past, they have pulled the dates back if new applications flooded in when they pushed the dates up.
USCIS will process in the following order now
1. Pull out cases based on PD, review then approve/deny/RFE
2. While waiting for RFE, process the next based on PD
3. IF the RFE response window is outside of this fiscal, they will re-allocate the visa number to another approvable case.
They will manage to process about 20k cases approving as many as possible by Sep30th2008.
Therefore, only those with pending RFEs will be delayed into next year.
USCIS is not all that inefficient or incompetent, not sure about DOS (to be fair, the Visa Office seems to have got its act together in the recent months)
The quarterly statutory quota for EB2 I or C is so puny (something like 700 visas) that any movement would almost entirely be dependent on the Eb1 and EB2ROW overflow. That is why I feel, once this next two months pass, we will see dates back in 2004 for EB2. Maybe not quite back in April, but sometime in the middle to later 2004. However we could see PDs move at a healthy clip for EB2 I and C next year. It will take most of next years overflow to clear up the EB2 backlog in my view.
They have no reason to pull the dates back. Most 2004, 2005, part 2006 people got to apply during the july07 fiasco. In the past, they have pulled the dates back if new applications flooded in when they pushed the dates up.
USCIS will process in the following order now
1. Pull out cases based on PD, review then approve/deny/RFE
2. While waiting for RFE, process the next based on PD
3. IF the RFE response window is outside of this fiscal, they will re-allocate the visa number to another approvable case.
They will manage to process about 20k cases approving as many as possible by Sep30th2008.
Therefore, only those with pending RFEs will be delayed into next year.
USCIS is not all that inefficient or incompetent, not sure about DOS (to be fair, the Visa Office seems to have got its act together in the recent months)
sprash
02-02 01:42 PM
Out of status is usually checked until date of I-485 filing. One exception being working without valid and active EAD when I-485 is pending.
H1 status, one should be paid what is mention in H1 LCA and it is not related to LC Salary for green card. LC Salary comes into picture for ability-to-pay issues.
Thanks for your inputs Desi.
I have been following this thread with great interest. I'm the guy who posted the RFE scans on Pg1.
In my case the RFE was issued 1.5 years after filing for AOS (I filed in July 07 and this RFE was on Oct 08). Also, I'm not the only person who got this. I know many folks who work for big companies like Intel etc, who got such an RFE.
Also if I remember correctly, Belle on Murthy Forums (who also seems in the know) mentioned that one must be employed at all times on EAD. I didn't find any specific timeframe -- most people said you could get into trouble if an RFE (such as mine) is raised and you're out of a job. On the other hand, it is might be safe till such an RFE is issued (???)
I tried to look for that thread, but couldn't find it. However I did find another similar thread on which she (he?) has said the same thing:
http://murthyforum.atinfopop.com/4/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1024039761&f=4654000912&m=9941019581&r=3791069581#3791069581
In tumultuous times such as these, I would expect USCIS to raise many more such RFEs.
H1 status, one should be paid what is mention in H1 LCA and it is not related to LC Salary for green card. LC Salary comes into picture for ability-to-pay issues.
Thanks for your inputs Desi.
I have been following this thread with great interest. I'm the guy who posted the RFE scans on Pg1.
In my case the RFE was issued 1.5 years after filing for AOS (I filed in July 07 and this RFE was on Oct 08). Also, I'm not the only person who got this. I know many folks who work for big companies like Intel etc, who got such an RFE.
Also if I remember correctly, Belle on Murthy Forums (who also seems in the know) mentioned that one must be employed at all times on EAD. I didn't find any specific timeframe -- most people said you could get into trouble if an RFE (such as mine) is raised and you're out of a job. On the other hand, it is might be safe till such an RFE is issued (???)
I tried to look for that thread, but couldn't find it. However I did find another similar thread on which she (he?) has said the same thing:
http://murthyforum.atinfopop.com/4/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1024039761&f=4654000912&m=9941019581&r=3791069581#3791069581
In tumultuous times such as these, I would expect USCIS to raise many more such RFEs.
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pappu
07-24 10:56 AM
I will try to dig out the actual memo. But this is from the oh law firm page:
---
06/17/2007: Flexible RFE/NOID Response Time Rule and Advisory for July EB-485 Filing
* As we advised earlier, the USCIS published a new rule that allows the USCIS to have more discredtion and control over the two issues: One is shortening of the timeframe for responses to RFE from previous 12 weeks to any period of time which they see fit. The second rule is their authority to either reject or deny petitions or applications without issuing RFE where "initial evidence" is missing in the filing. Previously, the so-called Yates memo indirectly required the agency to avoid rejection and denial with a recommend to issue RFEs as much as possible. This part of the Yates memo is overridden by the new rule who took effect yesterday, June 16, 2007. It is thus likely that the Service Centers will more aggressively reject or deny the I-485 applications where the "initial evidence" are missing in the filing packet. It is thus very important that people understand the definition of "initial evidence." The initial evidence varies between the nonimmigrant and immigrant proceedings and for that matter, each type of proceedings. The immigration regulation lists in details the initial evidence. However, the instructions sheets to each petition or application lists the initial evidence that are required for filing. Accordingly, beginning from today, people may want to read the instruction sheet for I-485 form carefully to learn the list of initial evidence and not to miss omitting these evidence in filing I-485 applications.
* One of the initial evidence which is listed is the sealed I-693, the Medical Examination results completed and sealed by the USCIS designated civil surgeons who examined the applicants per the immigration rules. As we reported yesterday, attorneys asked the USCIS authorities to accept I-485 applications without the medical result, but their answer was that they were taking it under advicement but as it stands now, the sealed medical report would be required as initial evidence, accoring to the USCIS authorities who were present at the AILA Annual Conference in Orlando. We understand that in some areas, there are a huge backlog in the physician's clinics for such medical examination. However, people can shop around the authorized physicians in much broader areas. For instance, people usually were asked to schedule such medical examination in the local "district" office where the applicants resided. The definition of "district office" has been broaden lately. Former district offices have been turned into field offices of a district office. Accordingly, people can schedule the medical examination through a physician located outside of their residence if the area falls under the jurisdiction of "district" even if it is outside the jurisdiction of "field office."
---
---
06/17/2007: Flexible RFE/NOID Response Time Rule and Advisory for July EB-485 Filing
* As we advised earlier, the USCIS published a new rule that allows the USCIS to have more discredtion and control over the two issues: One is shortening of the timeframe for responses to RFE from previous 12 weeks to any period of time which they see fit. The second rule is their authority to either reject or deny petitions or applications without issuing RFE where "initial evidence" is missing in the filing. Previously, the so-called Yates memo indirectly required the agency to avoid rejection and denial with a recommend to issue RFEs as much as possible. This part of the Yates memo is overridden by the new rule who took effect yesterday, June 16, 2007. It is thus likely that the Service Centers will more aggressively reject or deny the I-485 applications where the "initial evidence" are missing in the filing packet. It is thus very important that people understand the definition of "initial evidence." The initial evidence varies between the nonimmigrant and immigrant proceedings and for that matter, each type of proceedings. The immigration regulation lists in details the initial evidence. However, the instructions sheets to each petition or application lists the initial evidence that are required for filing. Accordingly, beginning from today, people may want to read the instruction sheet for I-485 form carefully to learn the list of initial evidence and not to miss omitting these evidence in filing I-485 applications.
* One of the initial evidence which is listed is the sealed I-693, the Medical Examination results completed and sealed by the USCIS designated civil surgeons who examined the applicants per the immigration rules. As we reported yesterday, attorneys asked the USCIS authorities to accept I-485 applications without the medical result, but their answer was that they were taking it under advicement but as it stands now, the sealed medical report would be required as initial evidence, accoring to the USCIS authorities who were present at the AILA Annual Conference in Orlando. We understand that in some areas, there are a huge backlog in the physician's clinics for such medical examination. However, people can shop around the authorized physicians in much broader areas. For instance, people usually were asked to schedule such medical examination in the local "district" office where the applicants resided. The definition of "district office" has been broaden lately. Former district offices have been turned into field offices of a district office. Accordingly, people can schedule the medical examination through a physician located outside of their residence if the area falls under the jurisdiction of "district" even if it is outside the jurisdiction of "field office."
---
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theperm
03-15 11:46 PM
instead write long letters to USCIS like IV suggested ! thats the place to vent.
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sanju
01-24 01:28 PM
What is the next item we are waiting for, it has to be "wait for the economy to get a little better before the congress will do something".
This chakraview never ends. Please god (or IV) help us ......
When you want someone (that could be anyone) to do something, it is better to ask politely rather than using accusatory language and kill the debate even before it starts. :D
This is just a suggestion. You are a free man living in a free world (and include the text of First Amendment here), so you are free to do or say whatever you want. Although, there are many means to express frustration, including accusatory language.
Why do think that someone here has a power to do something but is deliberately not doing it? You seem to think that others on the forum are giving you "excuses"? :rolleyes: That's funny. Often on these forums I have seen folks with the loudest (and mostly disrespectful or distasteful) expression try to drive, causing an accident right in the start.
It takes more than accusatory language to motivate others to do something constructive.
.
This chakraview never ends. Please god (or IV) help us ......
When you want someone (that could be anyone) to do something, it is better to ask politely rather than using accusatory language and kill the debate even before it starts. :D
This is just a suggestion. You are a free man living in a free world (and include the text of First Amendment here), so you are free to do or say whatever you want. Although, there are many means to express frustration, including accusatory language.
Why do think that someone here has a power to do something but is deliberately not doing it? You seem to think that others on the forum are giving you "excuses"? :rolleyes: That's funny. Often on these forums I have seen folks with the loudest (and mostly disrespectful or distasteful) expression try to drive, causing an accident right in the start.
It takes more than accusatory language to motivate others to do something constructive.
.
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sanju_dba
09-09 01:50 PM
This is a big fantasy.
EB3 is not going to get current in the next 4-5 years you said.
Backlog posted by USCIS and DOS is a lot more than posted. Their data is not totally right.
The only way EB3 India can be current if all Indians on H1B, EAD are deported by a law. Such law is likely in 4-5 years if outsourcing increase and anti-immigrants blame immigrants for their unemployment. Then EB3 I will get current. But there will be no EB3I to take advantage of it.
I say we stop dreaming and do a rally in DC.
I understand what you said, but just to consider the off numbers published by dos
http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/EmploymentDemandUsedForCutOffDates.pdf
EB2 total pending 34325
EB3 total pending 136325
2010-2011 quota EB1+EB2 ( 85343 )
less eb2 " " 34325
--------------------------------------------
" " 51018 trickeling down for EB3 Worldwide?
2010-2011 quota EB3 ( 42671 )
less eb3 - 136325
--------------------------------------------
42636 ( eb3 pending left over from above )
2011-2012 quota eb1+eb2+eb3 128013
So, with above math Eb2 will be current by next year, and eb3 will be by end of 2012?
above math is based on
inaccurate numbers given by DOS?
assuming no new applicants applying.
Hope I am correct! :)
EB3 is not going to get current in the next 4-5 years you said.
Backlog posted by USCIS and DOS is a lot more than posted. Their data is not totally right.
The only way EB3 India can be current if all Indians on H1B, EAD are deported by a law. Such law is likely in 4-5 years if outsourcing increase and anti-immigrants blame immigrants for their unemployment. Then EB3 I will get current. But there will be no EB3I to take advantage of it.
I say we stop dreaming and do a rally in DC.
I understand what you said, but just to consider the off numbers published by dos
http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/EmploymentDemandUsedForCutOffDates.pdf
EB2 total pending 34325
EB3 total pending 136325
2010-2011 quota EB1+EB2 ( 85343 )
less eb2 " " 34325
--------------------------------------------
" " 51018 trickeling down for EB3 Worldwide?
2010-2011 quota EB3 ( 42671 )
less eb3 - 136325
--------------------------------------------
42636 ( eb3 pending left over from above )
2011-2012 quota eb1+eb2+eb3 128013
So, with above math Eb2 will be current by next year, and eb3 will be by end of 2012?
above math is based on
inaccurate numbers given by DOS?
assuming no new applicants applying.
Hope I am correct! :)
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vandanaverdia
09-11 12:54 PM
The road to GC is not easy...
Support IV & come to DC!!
Lets get together & support a common cause...
Go IV!!!!
Support IV & come to DC!!
Lets get together & support a common cause...
Go IV!!!!
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kapil_jn
09-19 11:52 AM
I am not sure what stopped members from local areas(VA/MD) from coming to the rally.
There were 10 people from Tampa, Florida(about 1000 miles from DC). Tampa is a small city in Florida and there aren't that many tech workers. I am thankful to each one who was able to make it to the Rally.
I was there in rally with my wife and eight month old baby. It was a vast change of weather for the baby who has been in FL ever since birth.
There were 10 people from Tampa, Florida(about 1000 miles from DC). Tampa is a small city in Florida and there aren't that many tech workers. I am thankful to each one who was able to make it to the Rally.
I was there in rally with my wife and eight month old baby. It was a vast change of weather for the baby who has been in FL ever since birth.
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rpulipati
09-26 11:06 AM
I'm sorry if I sounded like a hypocrite. My interpretation was not to participate in FSB debate for PR visas as the debate was concentrated on H1-B visas.
I support H1-B's and please continue in the debate for H1-B's.
Actually, I think participating in the debate to present the other point of view (as in 'foreign workers are good for the US economy') is a good thing to do. Giving the forum out to the antis is a good way to make sure Durbin gets his message reaffirmed. Well, that's all true, unless you are one of those people who likes to yell 'Close the door!' right after they get in.
I support H1-B's and please continue in the debate for H1-B's.
Actually, I think participating in the debate to present the other point of view (as in 'foreign workers are good for the US economy') is a good thing to do. Giving the forum out to the antis is a good way to make sure Durbin gets his message reaffirmed. Well, that's all true, unless you are one of those people who likes to yell 'Close the door!' right after they get in.
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paskal
03-16 11:19 AM
to see you get defensive and try to make a case etc...........it amuses me........thats why i am doing it!!! :)
Dear friend,
We are not here to denigrate others. Neither are we interested in the kind of stereotyping that Lou Dobbs engages in.
I see you have not even bothered to complete your profile. So much for your bravery, railing at people anonymously.
Real good company and really god job huh?
I work for a REAL good company too, and I'm willing to bet my GC I make more money than you. Get it?
I have been here 12 years, I have education from the best schools in India and in the US (yes #1 ranked schools). The system still sticks me in EB2 with morons like YOU. So stop whining. The system is broken and we are trying to get it reformed. Isn't that the whole point? Hopefully you are lifting your little finger to help occasionally.
Consider this a warning. This needs to stop.
Dear friend,
We are not here to denigrate others. Neither are we interested in the kind of stereotyping that Lou Dobbs engages in.
I see you have not even bothered to complete your profile. So much for your bravery, railing at people anonymously.
Real good company and really god job huh?
I work for a REAL good company too, and I'm willing to bet my GC I make more money than you. Get it?
I have been here 12 years, I have education from the best schools in India and in the US (yes #1 ranked schools). The system still sticks me in EB2 with morons like YOU. So stop whining. The system is broken and we are trying to get it reformed. Isn't that the whole point? Hopefully you are lifting your little finger to help occasionally.
Consider this a warning. This needs to stop.
more...
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leoindiano
03-17 10:18 AM
Porting cases needs more research and with USCIS performance, you can say that it may have little impact on 2004 cases. The substitution cases filed in July are of 2005 and after cases. 2003 and 2004 cases all substituted before and i believe that is what created this mess for you and me.
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gccube
04-08 02:27 PM
Finally just received THAT email. "Current Status: Card production ordered"
PD Sep 2001
EB3 India.
Which service center processed your case? What is your receipt date?
PD Sep 2001
EB3 India.
Which service center processed your case? What is your receipt date?
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glus
07-28 09:31 AM
If you see the letter and spirit of clause in the said notification, an employment letter is not required and adjudicator has to send RFE if he feels required. File with latest paystubs. If RFE sent to you , then again file latest paystub to show that you was in employment with that employer from the date of filing 485 petition and for at least another 6-7 months further to that date.
Please don't spread incorrect statements. An employment letter is part of initial evidence and one of the most important things in the whole employment=based cases. Paystubs only show that you work, but they don't show what you do. I485 can't be approved without CURRENT employment verification letter. In fact, people whose I485 are pending for a long time (2-3 years) very often receive a RFE for an updated (current) employment letter since the original letter sent with application is simply too old. That is a fact, and not rumor. If you don't believe, review I485 instructions which say that employment letter must be there as initial evidence.
Please don't spread incorrect statements. An employment letter is part of initial evidence and one of the most important things in the whole employment=based cases. Paystubs only show that you work, but they don't show what you do. I485 can't be approved without CURRENT employment verification letter. In fact, people whose I485 are pending for a long time (2-3 years) very often receive a RFE for an updated (current) employment letter since the original letter sent with application is simply too old. That is a fact, and not rumor. If you don't believe, review I485 instructions which say that employment letter must be there as initial evidence.
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vsrinir
11-11 04:47 PM
Immigration Reform Rally Planned For January
11/11/2008 2:57 PM ET
TOP MARKET NEWS
(RTTNews) - A coalition of immigrant advocacy organizations is planning a mass rally in Washington on the first full day of the Obama Administration to push for immigration reform.
Hoping to draw tens of thousands of immigrants and supporters from around the country and around the region, coalition leaders said they would push the new Congress and administration for "just" and "humane" reform of the nation's immigration laws.
"We are looking for humane immigration reform … less punitive laws," said Jessica Alvarez, co-chairwoman of the National Capital Immigrant Coalition.
Alvarez said the coalition is hoping to build on the electoral efforts of the immigrant community, noting that the Latino vote was up 30 percent this year from the 2004 presidential election.
"The immigrant community has embraced the spirit of hope and democracy surrounding this historic election," Alvarez said. "We helped them get here. We also need our issues addressed."
Speaking with RTTNews after a press conference to announce the rally, Alvarez conceded that immigration reform has been a "thorny" issue that could be difficult for the Obama Administration to tackle early on.
However, she argued that immigration issues are central to the country's economic recovery.
"The economy's priorities are around families, around jobs, around the welfare of our communities," Alvarez said. "That's exactly what immigration reform will bring to our communities."
She added, "Immigration reform will bring a clear picture for our economy."
In addition to a less punitive attitude for those who have entered the country illegally, the coalition is also seeking stricter enforcement of labor laws to reduce incentives for employers to exploit immigrants, said Angelica Salas of the Fair Immigration Reform Movement.
"We want more enforcement of labor laws. That way you take away the advantage of unscrupulous employers and put everybody on a level playing field," she said.
by RTT Staff Writer
http://www.rttnews.com/Content/PoliticalNews.aspx?Node=B1&Id=772155
11/11/2008 2:57 PM ET
TOP MARKET NEWS
(RTTNews) - A coalition of immigrant advocacy organizations is planning a mass rally in Washington on the first full day of the Obama Administration to push for immigration reform.
Hoping to draw tens of thousands of immigrants and supporters from around the country and around the region, coalition leaders said they would push the new Congress and administration for "just" and "humane" reform of the nation's immigration laws.
"We are looking for humane immigration reform … less punitive laws," said Jessica Alvarez, co-chairwoman of the National Capital Immigrant Coalition.
Alvarez said the coalition is hoping to build on the electoral efforts of the immigrant community, noting that the Latino vote was up 30 percent this year from the 2004 presidential election.
"The immigrant community has embraced the spirit of hope and democracy surrounding this historic election," Alvarez said. "We helped them get here. We also need our issues addressed."
Speaking with RTTNews after a press conference to announce the rally, Alvarez conceded that immigration reform has been a "thorny" issue that could be difficult for the Obama Administration to tackle early on.
However, she argued that immigration issues are central to the country's economic recovery.
"The economy's priorities are around families, around jobs, around the welfare of our communities," Alvarez said. "That's exactly what immigration reform will bring to our communities."
She added, "Immigration reform will bring a clear picture for our economy."
In addition to a less punitive attitude for those who have entered the country illegally, the coalition is also seeking stricter enforcement of labor laws to reduce incentives for employers to exploit immigrants, said Angelica Salas of the Fair Immigration Reform Movement.
"We want more enforcement of labor laws. That way you take away the advantage of unscrupulous employers and put everybody on a level playing field," she said.
by RTT Staff Writer
http://www.rttnews.com/Content/PoliticalNews.aspx?Node=B1&Id=772155
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ajaykk
07-11 09:35 PM
My PD is 06/27/06..should I feel happy or fingers x'd or just lucky....
greencard_fever
07-28 04:12 PM
Admin Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Please Closeee this Threadddddd
alex99
04-10 10:35 AM
please participate
