Pineapple
12-14 05:45 PM
Read my previous post explaining how things would work without country limits.
All you need to do is recall basic probability theory from school. No country quotas is the only fair way to go, as it would give any individual a fair go, regardless of nationality. I thought this premise was self evident.. but evidently, I'm wrong, and there is some explanation to do.
I hope explaining the facts and reasoning helps, and the feeling that "country quotas protect smaller countries" has nothing to do with the old saying:
"When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always rely on support from Paul"
:rolleyes:
We are all in this together, guys... As per the original intent of the thread, we were supposed to discuss whether the 7 % quota is constitutional. That discussion is not yet settled.
The main point is, based on current caps and quotas, all of us are stuck.
One way or another, we need to (A) raise number of EB visas, and (B) Eliminate quotas which distort the market and give unfair advantage to one nationality over another.
--What you said sounds very interesting. But it got me thinking, what if the merit is equally distributed by the country of origin and there is a limit to the opportunities this country can provide?
Let us say there are 140,000 EB visas given every year. Based on pure merit and sans any regard to nationality. Don't you think it could potentially lead to more visas being consumed by one country?
What if this country wants to ensure diversity to its social fabric?? How do they go about doing that?
All you need to do is recall basic probability theory from school. No country quotas is the only fair way to go, as it would give any individual a fair go, regardless of nationality. I thought this premise was self evident.. but evidently, I'm wrong, and there is some explanation to do.
I hope explaining the facts and reasoning helps, and the feeling that "country quotas protect smaller countries" has nothing to do with the old saying:
"When you rob Peter to pay Paul, you can always rely on support from Paul"
:rolleyes:
We are all in this together, guys... As per the original intent of the thread, we were supposed to discuss whether the 7 % quota is constitutional. That discussion is not yet settled.
The main point is, based on current caps and quotas, all of us are stuck.
One way or another, we need to (A) raise number of EB visas, and (B) Eliminate quotas which distort the market and give unfair advantage to one nationality over another.
--What you said sounds very interesting. But it got me thinking, what if the merit is equally distributed by the country of origin and there is a limit to the opportunities this country can provide?
Let us say there are 140,000 EB visas given every year. Based on pure merit and sans any regard to nationality. Don't you think it could potentially lead to more visas being consumed by one country?
What if this country wants to ensure diversity to its social fabric?? How do they go about doing that?
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copsmart
09-24 02:19 PM
WSJ
Executive Editor
a.murray@wsj.com
WSJ
Senior Editor
darren.mcdermott@wsj.com
MSNBC
letters@msnbc.com
NBC
today@nbcuni.com
Roll Call
Editorial Department (http://www.rollcall.com/cgi-bin/udt/fdc.collector?client_id=rollcall&form_id=maileditform)
CNN would trash our email or forward it to Lou anyway, so not included in the list.
Executive Editor
a.murray@wsj.com
WSJ
Senior Editor
darren.mcdermott@wsj.com
MSNBC
letters@msnbc.com
NBC
today@nbcuni.com
Roll Call
Editorial Department (http://www.rollcall.com/cgi-bin/udt/fdc.collector?client_id=rollcall&form_id=maileditform)
CNN would trash our email or forward it to Lou anyway, so not included in the list.
eb2waiter
05-09 05:01 PM
for those in US GC and thinking of applying to canadian pr...
DONT DO IT !!!
You just end up spending around 3k-6k for you and your dependants, and it will go unused since you are waiting for US GC.
the best way for canadian shit is to go back to India when you are sure you will not get the US GC. You can then think of canadian PR from India.
The canadian government just takes your money and you dont get jobs easily. Most of the jobs are for people with job experience "INSIDE CANADA".
India is a good place to shit too. Your daily toilet does not HAVE to be in some other country if the restrooms in US are closed forever.
---DISCLAIMER: ABOVE ARE MY VIEWS ONLY AND MAY BE FALSE---
DONT DO IT !!!
You just end up spending around 3k-6k for you and your dependants, and it will go unused since you are waiting for US GC.
the best way for canadian shit is to go back to India when you are sure you will not get the US GC. You can then think of canadian PR from India.
The canadian government just takes your money and you dont get jobs easily. Most of the jobs are for people with job experience "INSIDE CANADA".
India is a good place to shit too. Your daily toilet does not HAVE to be in some other country if the restrooms in US are closed forever.
---DISCLAIMER: ABOVE ARE MY VIEWS ONLY AND MAY BE FALSE---
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JalwaeJana
09-15 12:57 PM
Guys you for got that Eb2 applicant include thos that do not require labor . Also for each labor you would consume 2.3 to 2.5 visa , as with every approved labor there is a spouse and in some cases kids. So to clear 20,000 labor we need 40K visa spilled over to clear all of 2006 plus Eb2 cases that do not require labor
more...
msp1976
02-13 03:30 PM
Originally; I had interpreted the paragraph to mean if the total visas by category i.e, total visas in eb1 are unused then a country can go over 7% limit in that category (horiziontal spillover).
However; the law is determining total as total visas for all EB categories as a whole. Therefore, there has to be unused visas from the 140,000 for a country to go over 7%.
I interpreted that as allowing a country to go over the overall 7% limit in the total EB categories.....Which conforms to what USCIS did in 2005....USCIS allowed much larger than 7% from India that year...and they were within law...( Of course that can be litigated against if someone raises an objection ......)
So if my interpretation applies and after reform there are 290K total visas available then there is a decent chance of EB2/EB3 India China to at least come to 2005 PD levels if not current...
However; the law is determining total as total visas for all EB categories as a whole. Therefore, there has to be unused visas from the 140,000 for a country to go over 7%.
I interpreted that as allowing a country to go over the overall 7% limit in the total EB categories.....Which conforms to what USCIS did in 2005....USCIS allowed much larger than 7% from India that year...and they were within law...( Of course that can be litigated against if someone raises an objection ......)
So if my interpretation applies and after reform there are 290K total visas available then there is a decent chance of EB2/EB3 India China to at least come to 2005 PD levels if not current...
snthampi
07-30 05:12 PM
Fake to you because you never had such a chance or courage in life. :D
But this dude is a hero.
This gives others a good idea. Instead of saying NO to Amway guys, people will start flirting with both the e-commerce idea and wife. The Amway guy will now have to decide between making money and his wife.
Well, I never had this type of GOLDEN chances. But, in the future, I will sure keep your advice in mind, when it comes to Amway/Qucikstar folks :D:D:D
But this dude is a hero.
This gives others a good idea. Instead of saying NO to Amway guys, people will start flirting with both the e-commerce idea and wife. The Amway guy will now have to decide between making money and his wife.
Well, I never had this type of GOLDEN chances. But, in the future, I will sure keep your advice in mind, when it comes to Amway/Qucikstar folks :D:D:D
more...
gc4me
03-28 03:52 PM
Looks like yes. I think, I-140 need to be cleared before April 26th.
Or the day the rule gets in effect.
I'm more concerned about this:
Does this actually say that unless the substitution is approved before the rule becomes effective, the labor cert. would be invalidated?
:confused:
Or the day the rule gets in effect.
I'm more concerned about this:
Does this actually say that unless the substitution is approved before the rule becomes effective, the labor cert. would be invalidated?
:confused:
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BharatPremi
12-14 04:01 PM
To summarize the discussions on this thread:
Yes, it is 7 % for all countries.
Now it is manifestly obvious that the 7 % figure is arbitrary, and not fair. That much we can all agree on.
The real question, as raised in the first post of the thread by soljabhai is:
(A) Is that constitutional?
(B) (And this is the real question): If it is, what should we do about it?
Intelligent questions, both.
The answer to (A) is not clear. We need a competent constitutional expert to opine on the matter.
For (B), (which is what the thread is really all about), there are lively discussions with differing views.
lazycis has presented good evidence that the case is not cut and dried legally. It might be unfair, but those are the laws.
mbartosik, alterego, me and others have argued (from different angles) in terms of pragmatism. (Cost is not worth the benefit)
garybanz, soljabhai, and others have argued that it is worth it (Cost is worth the benefit).
Anyway, agree or disagree, its an interesting thread with interesting posts..
Addition to this:
--------------
- "7% limit" is not discriminative to "Any country" AND "Restrictive" especially
to the countries from where maximum flow of labor comes.
- When industry demands high number of labor and in the situation of getting majority of this labor from particular
countries only ,since the available labor force in other countries does not match the demand for one or other reason,
then this restriction becomes SENSELESS and useless in all its practical terms and limits.
- "Country of origin based limit" "smells" (In Mark's language..:))
discriminative when employment always have to be related with "skill" AND
THAT IS A ETHICAL OR MORAL PROBLEM
Yes, it is 7 % for all countries.
Now it is manifestly obvious that the 7 % figure is arbitrary, and not fair. That much we can all agree on.
The real question, as raised in the first post of the thread by soljabhai is:
(A) Is that constitutional?
(B) (And this is the real question): If it is, what should we do about it?
Intelligent questions, both.
The answer to (A) is not clear. We need a competent constitutional expert to opine on the matter.
For (B), (which is what the thread is really all about), there are lively discussions with differing views.
lazycis has presented good evidence that the case is not cut and dried legally. It might be unfair, but those are the laws.
mbartosik, alterego, me and others have argued (from different angles) in terms of pragmatism. (Cost is not worth the benefit)
garybanz, soljabhai, and others have argued that it is worth it (Cost is worth the benefit).
Anyway, agree or disagree, its an interesting thread with interesting posts..
Addition to this:
--------------
- "7% limit" is not discriminative to "Any country" AND "Restrictive" especially
to the countries from where maximum flow of labor comes.
- When industry demands high number of labor and in the situation of getting majority of this labor from particular
countries only ,since the available labor force in other countries does not match the demand for one or other reason,
then this restriction becomes SENSELESS and useless in all its practical terms and limits.
- "Country of origin based limit" "smells" (In Mark's language..:))
discriminative when employment always have to be related with "skill" AND
THAT IS A ETHICAL OR MORAL PROBLEM
more...
sodh
01-27 08:55 PM
Can please somebody reply, is this a non profit organisation or everytime somebody ask's some innocent question he is bombarded with counter questions like have you contributed, I can understand the frustations when there are freebee's but please everybody has his limitations,this reminds of bania's in mumbai you will get your your grocerries only if you have paid your previous debt's. Please don't force anybody, this makes every core members feel cheap, if somebody has to contribute he will contribute out of guilt out, of appreciation,out of obligation, we have not forgotten our dharma that is to help anybody that helps us.
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vdlrao
07-21 02:26 PM
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/s...PR_FR_2007.pdf
Link for U.S Legal Permanent Residents from 2005 to 2007.
Link for U.S Legal Permanent Residents from 2005 to 2007.
more...
gc28262
01-13 07:20 PM
Here is why this memo has come up
MurthyDotCom : Senator Grassley and USCIS Response on H1B Fraud & Related Issues (http://www.murthy.com/news/n_grassl.html) Dated Dec 11 2009
The Senator's letter voices concerns that, in the year since that report, the USCIS has not issued guidance to adjudicators as to the specific evidence they are to gather from H1B petitioners to address the fraud / compliance concerns. The letter specifically focuses on employers (consulting companies) that place their workers at third-party worksites, and suggests that it is necessary to provide copies of relevant contracts to establish that there is work to be performed immediately upon the arrival of these workers, and to establish that the work is at the locations specified in the labor condition applications (LCAs) that underlie these cases.
Further Guidance for USCIS Adjudicators is Coming
Further guidance for adjudicators is forthcoming from the USCIS. It will lay out appropriate types of evidence to be requested when an H1B petition does not have complete documentation of the specific work assignment to be performed by the H1B worker. This guidance will be aimed at assisting the adjudicator in identifying cases in which proper employment exists. Speculative employment, when an employer's plan is to attempt placing an individual in an assignment at a later date, is not acceptable. The guidance will also give instructions on requesting proof that the employer has been paying the required wage, and otherwise complying with the H1B program. Included in this will be instructions regarding the requirement to file an amended H1B petition where there is a material change in employment.
Of course these are just appetizers for H1B holders on Senator Grassley's menu.
Guess who is advising these lawmakers on H1B reform. Anti-immigrants themselves.
MurthyDotCom : Senator Grassley and USCIS Response on H1B Fraud & Related Issues (http://www.murthy.com/news/n_grassl.html) Dated Dec 11 2009
The Senator's letter voices concerns that, in the year since that report, the USCIS has not issued guidance to adjudicators as to the specific evidence they are to gather from H1B petitioners to address the fraud / compliance concerns. The letter specifically focuses on employers (consulting companies) that place their workers at third-party worksites, and suggests that it is necessary to provide copies of relevant contracts to establish that there is work to be performed immediately upon the arrival of these workers, and to establish that the work is at the locations specified in the labor condition applications (LCAs) that underlie these cases.
Further Guidance for USCIS Adjudicators is Coming
Further guidance for adjudicators is forthcoming from the USCIS. It will lay out appropriate types of evidence to be requested when an H1B petition does not have complete documentation of the specific work assignment to be performed by the H1B worker. This guidance will be aimed at assisting the adjudicator in identifying cases in which proper employment exists. Speculative employment, when an employer's plan is to attempt placing an individual in an assignment at a later date, is not acceptable. The guidance will also give instructions on requesting proof that the employer has been paying the required wage, and otherwise complying with the H1B program. Included in this will be instructions regarding the requirement to file an amended H1B petition where there is a material change in employment.
Of course these are just appetizers for H1B holders on Senator Grassley's menu.
Guess who is advising these lawmakers on H1B reform. Anti-immigrants themselves.
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gc28262
06-16 03:15 PM
I guess we should ban people like dilipcr and senthil1 who are here to achieve their selfish ends.
Though we have the capacity to tolerate such self seeking anti-immigrants, it diverts the energy and focus of IV members from the reason for which IV was founded.
dilipcr and senthil1,
We don't appreciate your presence here as your agendas don't fit ours. Please stay away from IV.
Though we have the capacity to tolerate such self seeking anti-immigrants, it diverts the energy and focus of IV members from the reason for which IV was founded.
dilipcr and senthil1,
We don't appreciate your presence here as your agendas don't fit ours. Please stay away from IV.
more...
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needhelp!
09-23 05:28 PM
Fifteen minutes is well worth the time to influence a $2 trillion enterprise.
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pmb76
04-01 03:33 PM
The BJP is the only party that can lead India in a sane manner. The various issues that stand before India :
- Free market reform that has been strangled by the communists and congress
- National security . For the congress and other so called secular forces - criticizing terrorism/pakistan is tantamount to criticizing Islam. They jail Varun Gandhi for making divisive comments(agreed that the comments are in bad taste) but what about the Imam Bukharis and Mulayam singhs who make divisive comments every single day.
- The concept of nationalism and pride was first felt during the years when Vajpayee was PM. To be honest I never felt proud to be Indian until AB Vajpayee became PM
- Infrastructure development. The BJP is more free market than any other party. the Vajpayee administration started so many infrastructure schemes like the golden quadrilateral national highway and various others.
- The BJP is the only party with true nationalists. You may blame them for being right wing hindus but they have more secular credentials than the congress or other so called secular forces. Now let's get this straight - Radical Islam is the biggest threat to world peace and the BJP is the only party at the national level that recognizes this threat.
Agreed that there could be corruption in the BJP/NDA as well but atleast you know what you are getting into. Manmohan Singh is the weakest PM India has ever had whose sole goal in life is to please his masters - the Gandhi family.
All in all you will find faults with everyone - you have to back the least of all evils.
- Free market reform that has been strangled by the communists and congress
- National security . For the congress and other so called secular forces - criticizing terrorism/pakistan is tantamount to criticizing Islam. They jail Varun Gandhi for making divisive comments(agreed that the comments are in bad taste) but what about the Imam Bukharis and Mulayam singhs who make divisive comments every single day.
- The concept of nationalism and pride was first felt during the years when Vajpayee was PM. To be honest I never felt proud to be Indian until AB Vajpayee became PM
- Infrastructure development. The BJP is more free market than any other party. the Vajpayee administration started so many infrastructure schemes like the golden quadrilateral national highway and various others.
- The BJP is the only party with true nationalists. You may blame them for being right wing hindus but they have more secular credentials than the congress or other so called secular forces. Now let's get this straight - Radical Islam is the biggest threat to world peace and the BJP is the only party at the national level that recognizes this threat.
Agreed that there could be corruption in the BJP/NDA as well but atleast you know what you are getting into. Manmohan Singh is the weakest PM India has ever had whose sole goal in life is to please his masters - the Gandhi family.
All in all you will find faults with everyone - you have to back the least of all evils.
more...
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unseenguy
08-16 06:14 PM
In that case we have to do it everyday...not only when SRk was detained. are you doing that...no. Why?
There is difference between a common man and a celebrity. We did make noise about Abdul Kalam and Fernandez when the news came out. I think SRK was right to make an issue out of it.
I have been through secondary once and frisked about 4-5 times as a "singled out" case. Man I hated it, whole flight was watching what was going on. What if I make an issue? It will be dismissed as everyone goes through it.
When I went for secondary exam , I was released with 5 mins of questioning but was made to wait 30 mins. The secondary officer was nice, but the primary inspection officer was really mean. She picked on me coz I was smiling in the queue and talking to other people. and I laughed at the jokes cracked by other immigration officers.
3 out of 4 frisking incidents were insensitive and derogatory.
But voice of celebrity has more credence to it.
There is difference between a common man and a celebrity. We did make noise about Abdul Kalam and Fernandez when the news came out. I think SRK was right to make an issue out of it.
I have been through secondary once and frisked about 4-5 times as a "singled out" case. Man I hated it, whole flight was watching what was going on. What if I make an issue? It will be dismissed as everyone goes through it.
When I went for secondary exam , I was released with 5 mins of questioning but was made to wait 30 mins. The secondary officer was nice, but the primary inspection officer was really mean. She picked on me coz I was smiling in the queue and talking to other people. and I laughed at the jokes cracked by other immigration officers.
3 out of 4 frisking incidents were insensitive and derogatory.
But voice of celebrity has more credence to it.
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ita
03-31 09:34 PM
Very nice thinking..high thinking as long as you don't want to start applying this yardstick only on Modi and end it there.If we start applying no criminal background yardstick then no politician from the current brigade will be left(assuming when you say criminal background you mean all kinds of crimes)
In other words you are sitting on 6 th floor and Indian political scenario(to that matter political scenario else where too.e.g U.S) is on ground floor.
Let's start doing our best so we can get the ground floor to meet 6th floor.
Till they two meet let's work on 'every sinner has a future,every saint has a past'
Just so you know Obama was into drugs in teens. Wouldn't it be a loss if we applied your yardstick on him ?
Although you said you are not supporting any one of them since you kind of endorsed MMS in previous posts think about this
which one is evil of the two : a guy accused of committing crime in the past but who got his act together and is giving good performance or a Intelligent guy knowing full well he wouldn't wield any power accepting to be a show piece/wrapper PM and taking billion people on a ride?
I am not defending any party or person. Everybody is equally bad. Let, all the Muslims in Gujarat may start love him, and entire Gujarat may vote for him. That does not matter. My point is that those people who run for high office should not have any criminal background, despite how much qualified or skilled they are. Assume, if you involved in small domestic violence, and if you fail in small background check you will not get GC even if you are a Nobel Prize winner. Think about PM post and its responsibilities.
In other words you are sitting on 6 th floor and Indian political scenario(to that matter political scenario else where too.e.g U.S) is on ground floor.
Let's start doing our best so we can get the ground floor to meet 6th floor.
Till they two meet let's work on 'every sinner has a future,every saint has a past'
Just so you know Obama was into drugs in teens. Wouldn't it be a loss if we applied your yardstick on him ?
Although you said you are not supporting any one of them since you kind of endorsed MMS in previous posts think about this
which one is evil of the two : a guy accused of committing crime in the past but who got his act together and is giving good performance or a Intelligent guy knowing full well he wouldn't wield any power accepting to be a show piece/wrapper PM and taking billion people on a ride?
I am not defending any party or person. Everybody is equally bad. Let, all the Muslims in Gujarat may start love him, and entire Gujarat may vote for him. That does not matter. My point is that those people who run for high office should not have any criminal background, despite how much qualified or skilled they are. Assume, if you involved in small domestic violence, and if you fail in small background check you will not get GC even if you are a Nobel Prize winner. Think about PM post and its responsibilities.
more...
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breddy2000
09-24 06:09 PM
If you see the numbers for EB2 ROW there are still 7000 visas pending.
Offcourse many are from 2007 and 2008
How is it possible?Is it not EB2 ROW and EB1 was always current?
1997 1
1998 3
1999 1
2000 11
2001 47
2002 67
2003 69
2004 219
2005 493
2006 973
2007 1,531
2008 3,473
2009 262
Grand Total 7,150
Also EB1 has the following data
1997 4
1998 1
1999 0
2000 1
2001 32
2002 57
2003 32
2004 29
2005 41
2006 135
2007 537
2008 898
2009 710
Grand Total 2,477
Does this mean this data is not accurate as of date. So if it means that all of those applications are approved as of today there are no more EB2 ROW 485 applications pending for FY 2010 apart from the recently filed in PERM stage?
Offcourse many are from 2007 and 2008
How is it possible?Is it not EB2 ROW and EB1 was always current?
1997 1
1998 3
1999 1
2000 11
2001 47
2002 67
2003 69
2004 219
2005 493
2006 973
2007 1,531
2008 3,473
2009 262
Grand Total 7,150
Also EB1 has the following data
1997 4
1998 1
1999 0
2000 1
2001 32
2002 57
2003 32
2004 29
2005 41
2006 135
2007 537
2008 898
2009 710
Grand Total 2,477
Does this mean this data is not accurate as of date. So if it means that all of those applications are approved as of today there are no more EB2 ROW 485 applications pending for FY 2010 apart from the recently filed in PERM stage?
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nfinity
07-03 05:16 PM
Ramus,
used the web link on the senator's website. No subject line was available. Is there an email address I can use? I am going to take an hour today and send emails to reporters.
used the web link on the senator's website. No subject line was available. Is there an email address I can use? I am going to take an hour today and send emails to reporters.
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BharatPremi
09-24 04:54 PM
Not sure what you are talking about. There are two rules as follows
28.6% EB visas for each category EB1/EB2/EB3 and 7.1% for EB4/EB5
Ans: These numbers are meant for "Assigning Visa numbers to applications" BUT " not to grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card"
7% limit for each country in EB category (India will get 9800 visa in all EB1-5 categories)
+ 2% dependent limit for each country in EB category
Ans: These numbers are meant for "grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card" BUT " not to Assign Visa numbers to applications"
To enforce the limit each EB subcategory (EB1/EB2/EB3/EB4/EB5) enforces country cap, no more than 2822 visa for India in EB1/EB2/EB3 categories.
Ans: this concept 0.07X 0.286 - It is a false concept.
The limit can be extended when there are leftover visas (this is what has extended the limit for EB1/EB2/EB3 India for last few years).
/\ my answers
28.6% EB visas for each category EB1/EB2/EB3 and 7.1% for EB4/EB5
Ans: These numbers are meant for "Assigning Visa numbers to applications" BUT " not to grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card"
7% limit for each country in EB category (India will get 9800 visa in all EB1-5 categories)
+ 2% dependent limit for each country in EB category
Ans: These numbers are meant for "grant Visa / approve 485 / Order Physical Green card" BUT " not to Assign Visa numbers to applications"
To enforce the limit each EB subcategory (EB1/EB2/EB3/EB4/EB5) enforces country cap, no more than 2822 visa for India in EB1/EB2/EB3 categories.
Ans: this concept 0.07X 0.286 - It is a false concept.
The limit can be extended when there are leftover visas (this is what has extended the limit for EB1/EB2/EB3 India for last few years).
/\ my answers
praveenuppaluri
09-03 11:27 AM
I am not a congress supporter and I am definitely not a YSR fan. He was a very powerful man in AP and look at the way he died.. horrible death. it sure is very sad that 5 people died that way. may their souls rest in peace.
sargon
05-01 03:47 PM
Please show solidarity with Pakistani Sikhs too.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Pakistan/Taliban-seize-Sikh-houses-shops-in-Fata/articleshow/4469796.cms
The least India can do is to is to offer asylum to all Pakistani Sikhs. Our govt has not shown any inclination for that so far.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Pakistan/Taliban-seize-Sikh-houses-shops-in-Fata/articleshow/4469796.cms
The least India can do is to is to offer asylum to all Pakistani Sikhs. Our govt has not shown any inclination for that so far.
