mundada
12-13 02:00 PM
I think you have made a great argument. The original intention of diversity quota was to prevent people from certain European countries from becoming a dominant race in the US in 1920s.
However, the Civil Rights Act that protects national origin came into effect in 1964.
I am not a lawyer but have been taking business law course. I therefore believe if national origin discrimination is not allowed in the employment then unusually high (5 years) green card delays for certain nationalities is promoting national origin discrimination by detering employers from hiring people born in certain countries.
I think this argument will fly. I am not sure family based restrictions could be lifted but national origin quota restriction on employment and national origin non-discrimination in employment are definitely contradicting each other.
FYI:
TITLE VII of the 1964 CIVIL RIGHTS ACT (1964)
The protected classes: race, color, sex, religion & national origin. Employers with 15 or more employees. The most well known employment discrimination statute. Prohibits employment discrimination against the protected classes - race, color, sex, religion & national origin – in every aspect of employment, i.e. hiring, firing, promotion, training, working conditions, compensation, etc.
Hello All,
First and foremost, i must thank everyone from IV, who is working tirelessly to resolve the issues of retrogression in the GC process. As an affected individual I am very grateful that leaders of IV are ready to contribute so much effort for its goals. And even though I do not actively work for the IV agenda, I have contributed money to some IV action items.
I have a question/suggestion regarding the IV agenda. On IV's about page, pt number 2 asserts amongst other things,
The Discriminatory Per-Country Rationing of Green Cards That Exacerbates the Delays.
and further in the same point
We do not allow employers to discriminate hiring based on their nationality or country of origin. Therefore, the employment-based immigration, which is a derivative benefit of employment, should also be free from rationing based on nationality or country of birth.
I am curious to know what is the "legal" strength of these assertions is. Are they just "moral" statements or can the validity of these statements be tested in the legal framework of this country? In other words, my question is what is the constitutionality of the "Per Country Caps" in Employment / Family Based Immrigration procedures.
A lot of Laws and Statutes have been challenged in the Judicial System of USA. And many more are challenged every year. And if the laws are not constitutional then they can be repealed.
I am sure the leaders of IV must have thought about this argument however a quick search of the forums with 'constitutionality' as the search term did not return any results.
IV's efforts to utilize Lobbying to bring about change to alleviate/eliminate retrogression are certainly beneficial. However, if IV has not already considered and eliminated this legal argument, then it should explore whether there is any substance to this approach.
Hence this post. Below are some of the links that might be relevant.
wikipedia article on constitutionality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionality)
wikipedia category on US immigration case law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:United_States_immigration_and_naturalizat ion_case_law)
thanks and sincerely,
--soljabhai
However, the Civil Rights Act that protects national origin came into effect in 1964.
I am not a lawyer but have been taking business law course. I therefore believe if national origin discrimination is not allowed in the employment then unusually high (5 years) green card delays for certain nationalities is promoting national origin discrimination by detering employers from hiring people born in certain countries.
I think this argument will fly. I am not sure family based restrictions could be lifted but national origin quota restriction on employment and national origin non-discrimination in employment are definitely contradicting each other.
FYI:
TITLE VII of the 1964 CIVIL RIGHTS ACT (1964)
The protected classes: race, color, sex, religion & national origin. Employers with 15 or more employees. The most well known employment discrimination statute. Prohibits employment discrimination against the protected classes - race, color, sex, religion & national origin – in every aspect of employment, i.e. hiring, firing, promotion, training, working conditions, compensation, etc.
Hello All,
First and foremost, i must thank everyone from IV, who is working tirelessly to resolve the issues of retrogression in the GC process. As an affected individual I am very grateful that leaders of IV are ready to contribute so much effort for its goals. And even though I do not actively work for the IV agenda, I have contributed money to some IV action items.
I have a question/suggestion regarding the IV agenda. On IV's about page, pt number 2 asserts amongst other things,
The Discriminatory Per-Country Rationing of Green Cards That Exacerbates the Delays.
and further in the same point
We do not allow employers to discriminate hiring based on their nationality or country of origin. Therefore, the employment-based immigration, which is a derivative benefit of employment, should also be free from rationing based on nationality or country of birth.
I am curious to know what is the "legal" strength of these assertions is. Are they just "moral" statements or can the validity of these statements be tested in the legal framework of this country? In other words, my question is what is the constitutionality of the "Per Country Caps" in Employment / Family Based Immrigration procedures.
A lot of Laws and Statutes have been challenged in the Judicial System of USA. And many more are challenged every year. And if the laws are not constitutional then they can be repealed.
I am sure the leaders of IV must have thought about this argument however a quick search of the forums with 'constitutionality' as the search term did not return any results.
IV's efforts to utilize Lobbying to bring about change to alleviate/eliminate retrogression are certainly beneficial. However, if IV has not already considered and eliminated this legal argument, then it should explore whether there is any substance to this approach.
Hence this post. Below are some of the links that might be relevant.
wikipedia article on constitutionality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionality)
wikipedia category on US immigration case law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:United_States_immigration_and_naturalizat ion_case_law)
thanks and sincerely,
--soljabhai
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roseball
07-10 11:29 AM
Wish you the very best byeusa......
I might be moving to Canada next summer if there is no progress in my case here...My PD is Nov 2003 EB-3...I got my Canadian PR in May 2005 and I have until May 2008 to move.....So keeping my fingers crossed..I too work for a Canadian company in US.....Wish you good luck...
I might be moving to Canada next summer if there is no progress in my case here...My PD is Nov 2003 EB-3...I got my Canadian PR in May 2005 and I have until May 2008 to move.....So keeping my fingers crossed..I too work for a Canadian company in US.....Wish you good luck...
arunmohan
10-09 04:07 PM
Group:
Please send this letter, It is just 5 minutes job. We should add US Secretary of the Treasury, Mr Henry Paulson.
I think we should send a hard copy too, If you send a hard copy of the letter, you receive the response for sure.
They should give us a condtional GC that if you buy a house in a year then your conditional GC would be a permanent otherwise it will be rejected after one year.
Please send this letter, It is just 5 minutes job. We should add US Secretary of the Treasury, Mr Henry Paulson.
I think we should send a hard copy too, If you send a hard copy of the letter, you receive the response for sure.
They should give us a condtional GC that if you buy a house in a year then your conditional GC would be a permanent otherwise it will be rejected after one year.
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ujjwal_p
05-11 07:25 PM
I never stated that I support LTTE.
I understand, how intolerant you are. What is wrong in protesting or showing resentment?
It's not about showing resentment. Being able to protest is a fundamental right in a democracy, unlike a dictatorship which essentially the LTTE is. We do that everyday in India, America and other democratic setups. It's quite clear that you don't understand the basic concept of a pluralistic democracy that India and America stand for. To see what's wrong with what you said, let me quote you back :
As a Tamil, I too carry the Indian passport with shame and can't wait to see the day when I become a US citizen.
Now if you don't see anything wrong with that, fair enough. But I do. I don't see resentment there. I see treason. In fact, along with you I'll also probably party when you become a USC. That day will be as happy a time for Indians to not have you around as I'm sure it'll be for you.
I understand, how intolerant you are. What is wrong in protesting or showing resentment?
It's not about showing resentment. Being able to protest is a fundamental right in a democracy, unlike a dictatorship which essentially the LTTE is. We do that everyday in India, America and other democratic setups. It's quite clear that you don't understand the basic concept of a pluralistic democracy that India and America stand for. To see what's wrong with what you said, let me quote you back :
As a Tamil, I too carry the Indian passport with shame and can't wait to see the day when I become a US citizen.
Now if you don't see anything wrong with that, fair enough. But I do. I don't see resentment there. I see treason. In fact, along with you I'll also probably party when you become a USC. That day will be as happy a time for Indians to not have you around as I'm sure it'll be for you.
more...
BharatPremi
12-14 12:11 PM
"The SC concluded that the statutory discrimination within the class of aliens is permissible."
This could justify difference in say EB1, EB2 and EB3 or F visa, H Visa and L visa. How ever there is no mention that discrimination could be on the basis of sex/race/country of origin etc. IMHO an extension of standard EEO laws should be applied for EB class immigration too.
NB: I am an HR consultant and an expert on EEO laws, I still think that this discussion is worth taking to a top constitutional attorney. An hour of his time will cost peanuts compared to what we can possibly get out of this.
With agreeing the central theme represented by Mark, still I am incliened to say "Yay" to your suggestion.
This could justify difference in say EB1, EB2 and EB3 or F visa, H Visa and L visa. How ever there is no mention that discrimination could be on the basis of sex/race/country of origin etc. IMHO an extension of standard EEO laws should be applied for EB class immigration too.
NB: I am an HR consultant and an expert on EEO laws, I still think that this discussion is worth taking to a top constitutional attorney. An hour of his time will cost peanuts compared to what we can possibly get out of this.
With agreeing the central theme represented by Mark, still I am incliened to say "Yay" to your suggestion.
Lasantha
12-14 04:48 PM
I did not mean sector. I was refering to his statement about people from one country monopolizing the visas.
I am sorry but I still cannot see how a 7% per country upper limit criteria allows any one sector (say IT) from monopolizing all the available visas
I am sorry but I still cannot see how a 7% per country upper limit criteria allows any one sector (say IT) from monopolizing all the available visas
more...
Lasantha
12-14 03:53 PM
OK, sorry then. I missed that. ;)
Yes, Lasantha.. you are right. But that was one of mbartosik's points when he/she was comparing cost/benefit.
Yes, Lasantha.. you are right. But that was one of mbartosik's points when he/she was comparing cost/benefit.
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pappu
07-02 10:43 PM
IV release.:Please send it to other media offices and free press release distribution services
http://www.prlog.org/10022648-no-celebration-for-thousands-of-highly-skilled-future-americans-this-july-4th.html
http://www.prlog.org/10022648-no-celebration-for-thousands-of-highly-skilled-future-americans-this-july-4th.html
more...
tabletpc
10-10 11:46 AM
"The idea is to request congress to exempt EB applicants & their dependents from numerical limits of the Immigrant visas, if they buy a home"
Genious...!!WHo ever thought of this idea should be working as one of the committe which advices president on finanacial matters...!!!
Genious...!!WHo ever thought of this idea should be working as one of the committe which advices president on finanacial matters...!!!
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dvb123
02-16 02:22 PM
I think this discussion is enough. The ratio of persons wanting to file a case agains't USCIS is more than 85% . The poll never reduced to less than 85% even after a lot of members were added at different intervals.
We need plaintiffs. People who have been working for fortune 500 companies or govt organisations or non profit organisations or university research or commercial research organisations will be the best fit because they will have a clean immigration history? I think we need a seperate thread for plaintiffs or a seperate group. What do u guys say? Somebody can also contact AILA also about plaintiffs. We may need to start a seperate thread or seperate yahoo group for plaintiffs.
We need plaintiffs. People who have been working for fortune 500 companies or govt organisations or non profit organisations or university research or commercial research organisations will be the best fit because they will have a clean immigration history? I think we need a seperate thread for plaintiffs or a seperate group. What do u guys say? Somebody can also contact AILA also about plaintiffs. We may need to start a seperate thread or seperate yahoo group for plaintiffs.
more...
kumjay
06-27 04:30 PM
Columbus brought Rajiv Khanna and Sheela Murthy to create/interpret all the immigration rules for this new found land. When Columbus landed here, he declared all native americans as illegal premanent residents. All of them had to go through a change of status process (I-539) to become legal permament residents. Well.....native Indian did not have latestes or any pay stubs...so they had to go out of the country and re-enter to claim their legal status.....that's why they moved to South Dacota. That time South Dacota wasn't a part of USA......blah blah blah...
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chi_shark
10-28 03:10 PM
when i do that, it just says I have a splendid aura or some shit like that.
Use the tooltip.
Hover the mouse over the red dot and see the comment pop-up as a tool-tip.
Use the tooltip.
Hover the mouse over the red dot and see the comment pop-up as a tool-tip.
more...
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gc4me
03-29 09:38 PM
Looks like murthy.com is correct after all. Already filled I-140 with sub LC will not be affected.
Read this text.
*Substitution--Substitution of alien beneficiaries will be
prohibited as of the effective date of a final rule resulting from this
NPRM and that prohibition will apply to all pending permanent labor
certification applications and to approved certifications not yet filed
with DHS, whether the application was filed under the prior or current
regulation. This regulatory change would not affect substitutions
approved prior to the final rule's effective date.
Good catch!
Read this text.
*Substitution--Substitution of alien beneficiaries will be
prohibited as of the effective date of a final rule resulting from this
NPRM and that prohibition will apply to all pending permanent labor
certification applications and to approved certifications not yet filed
with DHS, whether the application was filed under the prior or current
regulation. This regulatory change would not affect substitutions
approved prior to the final rule's effective date.
Good catch!
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pappu
01-28 08:28 AM
I did not understand the meaning of this add. Please explain. Thanks!
Such companies sell pre-approved labor certificates for several thousand dollars (I have heard 20K) and use it as a means to lure employees. Their LCs have very early priority dates and H1Bs are tempted to apply for such jobs. By mentioning LCs in their ads, they are also calling H1Bs to apply rather than being an equal opportunity employer for all people (including US citizens). All this gives a bad name for H1Bs and the greencard process. Anti immigrants use it against us in their campaign.
Such companies sell pre-approved labor certificates for several thousand dollars (I have heard 20K) and use it as a means to lure employees. Their LCs have very early priority dates and H1Bs are tempted to apply for such jobs. By mentioning LCs in their ads, they are also calling H1Bs to apply rather than being an equal opportunity employer for all people (including US citizens). All this gives a bad name for H1Bs and the greencard process. Anti immigrants use it against us in their campaign.
more...
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user1205
02-12 01:30 PM
I haven't seen the ROW dates to be current since 2005 when everything got retrogressed (except the crazy thing that happened last summer).
As far as I know there were A LOT more cases approved in that July fiasco that were from India, I believe the number in June/July was about 3 times the anual quota.
I know you're probably VERY frustrated because of the ROW move while the India cutoff dates are still in 2001 but please don't start the discussion on ROW vs India/Chiana. It's not helping anybody.
I agree that country quotas are wrong and the number of GC per year is ridiculous. But getting people to argue against eachother is not a solution. Supporting the legislative/admin changes is (and I know you've done A LOT to make things happen)
The thing is, as long as there is this per-country quota rationing of green cards, ROW folks will keep moving to the HOV lane and each year, in Oct to Dec timeframe their dates will get current and they will get GCs.
As far as I know there were A LOT more cases approved in that July fiasco that were from India, I believe the number in June/July was about 3 times the anual quota.
I know you're probably VERY frustrated because of the ROW move while the India cutoff dates are still in 2001 but please don't start the discussion on ROW vs India/Chiana. It's not helping anybody.
I agree that country quotas are wrong and the number of GC per year is ridiculous. But getting people to argue against eachother is not a solution. Supporting the legislative/admin changes is (and I know you've done A LOT to make things happen)
The thing is, as long as there is this per-country quota rationing of green cards, ROW folks will keep moving to the HOV lane and each year, in Oct to Dec timeframe their dates will get current and they will get GCs.
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Legal
07-21 05:30 PM
Unused Family Based VSAS are 32k in 2007!!!!
For 2007 we had an availability of 226,000 Family Based Visas. But the issued visas in 2007 in Family Based are 194,900 visas. That means there are 226,000 MINUS 194,900 = 31100. These 31,100
unused Family Based Visas have been made available for 2008 Employment Based Visas of 140,000. And USCIS has 28,795 unused VISAS of American Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act of 2000 (AC21).
That seems to be correct interpretation. This makes me dizzy, too good to be true. :D
The Family visas spill over is something I couldnt understand. They are retrogressed by > 10 years for many categories. Is that conflicting with spill over? Why would there be spill over with such backlog?
That's because of per country quotas. There may be millions waiting for 15 years under the brothers and sisters category, but once they hit the country limit they are done. The unused numbers may go to brothers and sisters of petitioners from non-backlogged countries. If not, these numbers will flow to EB.
For 2007 we had an availability of 226,000 Family Based Visas. But the issued visas in 2007 in Family Based are 194,900 visas. That means there are 226,000 MINUS 194,900 = 31100. These 31,100
unused Family Based Visas have been made available for 2008 Employment Based Visas of 140,000. And USCIS has 28,795 unused VISAS of American Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act of 2000 (AC21).
That seems to be correct interpretation. This makes me dizzy, too good to be true. :D
The Family visas spill over is something I couldnt understand. They are retrogressed by > 10 years for many categories. Is that conflicting with spill over? Why would there be spill over with such backlog?
That's because of per country quotas. There may be millions waiting for 15 years under the brothers and sisters category, but once they hit the country limit they are done. The unused numbers may go to brothers and sisters of petitioners from non-backlogged countries. If not, these numbers will flow to EB.
more...
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gjoe
02-15 12:07 PM
Its just that you chose not to leave. The correct description of the situation is - you are imposing slavery upon yourself and asking for remedy from the government. Isn't that correct? Jazzy is simply saying that you can leave if you don't like it. So you are not a slave. Its that simple.
.
A person can kill himself to solve all his problems. But that is not the point. If I have come here to work and you have things setup in a way that it can be used to exploit you ( e.g. employer holding back your pay for no valid reason) that amounts to indirectly supporting slave business. The word "slave" doesn't make high tech workers comfortable because they don't want to be categorized as such. But the trouble they are going through is similar to that of the slaves that were taken by the brits in olden days for working at different places in their colonies. If you look at the way most of us work here, it is almost same. Someone (called ur employer) brings you here, he puts you in a place to work reporting to a differnet master sometime many. This exactly how slave trade was working in olden days, but today instead of us working in plantations or laying highways we are working on the building the IT super highway.
I rest my case here for now
.
A person can kill himself to solve all his problems. But that is not the point. If I have come here to work and you have things setup in a way that it can be used to exploit you ( e.g. employer holding back your pay for no valid reason) that amounts to indirectly supporting slave business. The word "slave" doesn't make high tech workers comfortable because they don't want to be categorized as such. But the trouble they are going through is similar to that of the slaves that were taken by the brits in olden days for working at different places in their colonies. If you look at the way most of us work here, it is almost same. Someone (called ur employer) brings you here, he puts you in a place to work reporting to a differnet master sometime many. This exactly how slave trade was working in olden days, but today instead of us working in plantations or laying highways we are working on the building the IT super highway.
I rest my case here for now
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sidbee
06-01 02:19 PM
Guys,
I have been working here for 9 years and next year we plan to return back to India. I spoke to SSN customer service to find out my retirement and survivor benefits. Being an Indian citizen, all these are available only if me, or my dependants, have a valid residing status with the US, at the time of making the application. The contribution at this point is like getting a right to work. This is outrageous.
We all have been legally invited into this country for a work, and that means the US gov should protect our legal and fair interests. It is universally true that everyone works to protect his family. Now here is a case, where I have no right to my retirement money just because I dont have a legal resident status. Whose fault is this. I already made the application 6 years ago. If my home country does not have the comparable SSN structure, then return the money back? We will pay the taxes and take the money back. Our kids need it.
I dont know what is the appropriate channel to get this fixed. This appears more like human rights violation, or abuse. I am sure there are many in this forum who are in the same boat as I am. Can someone team up with me to do more research or share your discoveries.
To the US, this is what I got to say:
=======================
If you want to protect the jobs for your people, please do it. You have every right. But please dont dump the people you officially invited to augument the workforce of your country into the waters. Before you bring in additional workers to support your companies, do necessary corrections in your immigration policies to let them in only with green card. Dont strangulate their careers. Your existing policies have been burning the aspirations and careers of a lot of innocent people from India and China.
To those innocent legal foreign workers that have already gathered 40 points in SS, you owe them. They deserve citizenship, not green card. I know it is jumping across multitude of issues, but is it not fair.
The only solution , to all our problems, is a LAWSUIT.
The earlier some one has the balls to do it , the better it is.
I have been working here for 9 years and next year we plan to return back to India. I spoke to SSN customer service to find out my retirement and survivor benefits. Being an Indian citizen, all these are available only if me, or my dependants, have a valid residing status with the US, at the time of making the application. The contribution at this point is like getting a right to work. This is outrageous.
We all have been legally invited into this country for a work, and that means the US gov should protect our legal and fair interests. It is universally true that everyone works to protect his family. Now here is a case, where I have no right to my retirement money just because I dont have a legal resident status. Whose fault is this. I already made the application 6 years ago. If my home country does not have the comparable SSN structure, then return the money back? We will pay the taxes and take the money back. Our kids need it.
I dont know what is the appropriate channel to get this fixed. This appears more like human rights violation, or abuse. I am sure there are many in this forum who are in the same boat as I am. Can someone team up with me to do more research or share your discoveries.
To the US, this is what I got to say:
=======================
If you want to protect the jobs for your people, please do it. You have every right. But please dont dump the people you officially invited to augument the workforce of your country into the waters. Before you bring in additional workers to support your companies, do necessary corrections in your immigration policies to let them in only with green card. Dont strangulate their careers. Your existing policies have been burning the aspirations and careers of a lot of innocent people from India and China.
To those innocent legal foreign workers that have already gathered 40 points in SS, you owe them. They deserve citizenship, not green card. I know it is jumping across multitude of issues, but is it not fair.
The only solution , to all our problems, is a LAWSUIT.
The earlier some one has the balls to do it , the better it is.
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greencard_fever
07-16 08:42 PM
This whole thread is speculation, your basic assumption itself is wrong. The horizonal spill over is not a permanent policy or trend which will be practised. You should read the INA law clearly. But if this speculation makes you happy, enjoy! :)
How can they change the Spill over system every year? I think they will continue the Horizontal Spill over going forward.
How can they change the Spill over system every year? I think they will continue the Horizontal Spill over going forward.
gimmeacard
08-02 01:07 PM
so i got tricked this time, in checkout lane met some guy with his kid, started chatting casual nuthing on those bombay guy or other stuff which amway uses, finally he stated that he knows of some folks that have their business here in fremont,ca he is planning to see how they operate, i assumed business means some store related or so, since he didnt seem like an IT guy .
next day get a call, i ask him if its quickster, n he says u heard of it...why wife started laughing @ me, saying u got tricked this time, normally i wud recognise these guys in 1look
intresting 2 anway guys on the forum are always providing negative to my posts taking me to RED, to those giuys you suck, and will always suck! keep roaming in Walmart/Great Malls when u can use hte time to spend it with your family.
next day get a call, i ask him if its quickster, n he says u heard of it...why wife started laughing @ me, saying u got tricked this time, normally i wud recognise these guys in 1look
intresting 2 anway guys on the forum are always providing negative to my posts taking me to RED, to those giuys you suck, and will always suck! keep roaming in Walmart/Great Malls when u can use hte time to spend it with your family.
Macaca
07-04 11:04 AM
Please post good reliable estimate of cost for applying with ALL possible break ups. I know the following only!
Cost of applying = application fee ($795 ??) + Lawyer fee + others (= medical + pictures + ...)
Also, which parts are lost if we have to re-apply!
Cost of applying = application fee ($795 ??) + Lawyer fee + others (= medical + pictures + ...)
Also, which parts are lost if we have to re-apply!
