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  • dixie
    07-16 12:38 PM
    If you go to anti-H1-b sites, They are displaying things like, Advertisements listing H1-b available for a number of US cities. These are ads taken from body shops. The anti-h1-b sites use this as a propaganda. I think it hurts all of us. :D

    Exactly.Anti-H1B sites are only looking for propaganda material. You think they will start loving us if all body-shops are eliminated ? People like Norm matloff and programmers guild oppose all H1-B period.Whether it is from well known MNCs or your so-called "body shops". These are usually the same folks whining against outsourcing, free trade, the fact that everyone else is catching up .. about the world in general. Stop wasting time convincing these loosers.They are neither representative of the american public at large nor are the body shops representative of our community. If you think body shoppers are the only folks who hire H1-Bs, read about all the press articles in the "IV in the news" section and please let me know how many body-shop employees were mentioned there. We KNOW we make a contribution to this country; industry knows it too. We dont need to apologise to people like PG,lou dobbs and co for supposedly "eating their lunch".

    As for pushing for H1-B reform, there is absolutely no gaurantee there will be any accompaying GC reform. Remember AC21 ? it tripled the number of H1-Bs with no increase in GCs ... the result is the current mess. Why did it happen ? because there was no one pushing for GC reform.





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  • Macaca
    01-20 10:11 AM
    Could Congress Be Waking Up? (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/opinion/19mann.html?em&ex=1200978000&en=42615f161ac4daf2&ei=5087%0A) By THOMAS E. MANN, MOLLY REYNOLDS and NIGEL HOLMES | NY Times, Jan 19

    AMID the clamor of the presidential campaign, it�s sometimes easy to forget that all 435 House seats and 35 of the Senate�s seats are up for election this year, too. So how should Congress under its new Democratic leadership be judged?

    The public has reached a decidedly negative conclusion, based on Congress�s inability to force a change in policy on the Iraq war and the pitched partisan battles that characterized much of the year in Washington.

    But expectations for seismic change in policymaking after the 2006 midterm elections were almost certainly too high, given the deep ideological differences between the parties, the Democrats� narrow majorities, the now-routine Senate filibusters and a Republican president determined to go his own way on Iraq, the budget and domestic policy.

    Based on our research, the 110th Congress does deserve some praise. In 2007, the level of energy and activity on Capitol Hill picked up markedly. This is not surprising � when the Newt Gingrich Congress, its closest analogue, took over in 1995, the pace of legislative life sped up, too.

    In terms of both the number and significance of new public laws, however, last year�s Democratic majority significantly outperformed that Republican Congress. Only one item described in the Republican Contract With America was signed into law at the end of 1995, while most of the proposals the Democrats announced as their agenda were enacted.

    Democrats, to be sure, aimed lower in their specific legislative promises, but they managed to overcome the many obstacles in their way. Republicans in 1995 shot for the moon and ended up frustrated by Senate inaction, presidential vetoes and a government shutdown that proved politically damaging.

    The new Democratic Congress delivered on the promise of ethics and lobbying reform, and made considerable progress in reining in earmarks, which had exploded under the previous 12 years of mostly Republican rule. In fact, between the 2006 and 2008 fiscal years, the cost of appropriations earmarks appears to have dropped from $29 billion to $14.1 billion. Perhaps most important, Congress reasserted itself as a rightful check on the executive branch, significantly stepping up its oversight on a wide range of important subjects.

    But a less partisan, more deliberative and productive legislative process will have to await a clearer signal from voters in the 2008 elections.

    The chart below shows how the 110th Congress spent its time, and what it accomplished, in its first year under Democratic control, compared with its immediate predecessor and with the Republican Congress that took office in 1995.





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  • abhisam
    07-27 01:59 PM
    UN, can you please reply? Thanks!





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  • alisa
    04-07 03:21 PM
    I never thought online poker would get outlawed in USA. See this.
    http://www.usatoday.com/tech/2006-10-02-internet-gambling-usat_x.htm

    So, forgive me for not feeling comfortable when people tell me that they think a certain law will not pass.

    This is the same breed of people who authorized the Iraq war. If that disaster had not happened, maybe they could have debated other issues, and we would have had some immigration reform by now.

    So, what should be do about this?

    There are many big companies that depend completely on consultants for their software projects. Example Sony, Boeing... If this applies to existing H1bs then their projects will suffer a great loss.

    ERP softwares basically are implemented by consulting firms .Then all big companies including Oracle,SAP cannot implement their applications anywhere as they have to hire people on their own to implement.All ERP implementations can be treated as consulting.This is going to be a big mess.

    I don't think this bill is going pass successfully.



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  • axp817
    03-26 03:38 PM
    If they continue to see in 140 filings by a company that there has been more 140's filed then people on payroll

    That is precisely why smaller companies choose to revoke the 140 when an employee leaves them while the 485 is still pending.

    It isn't always to "get back" at the employee.

    That being said, UN, I would love to hear your thoughts on this situation,

    Person leaves employer X (140 approved, more than 180 days since 485 filing, etc.) and joins employer Y on EAD (under AC21).

    Employer X revokes 140 so as to not run into any issues like you pointed out. Nothing personal against the employee, just business.

    That person after a while decides to go back to employer X (485 is still pending) under AC21.

    Does the USCIS look at that as okay to do? Or do they question the employer's intentions since the employer had earlier revoked the 140.

    Thanks in advance for sharing your opinion on this.





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  • manub
    07-07 09:59 PM
    Yes I called all senators from the state and also local representative.Only local representative responded and their office contacted uscis for my EAD.We didnot contact any body for my husband`s petition .we are planning to do so this week.It is at NSC.



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  • chanduv23
    03-24 11:28 AM
    Its a problem when we dont speak out on our issues - nobody understands our pain and.

    Its a problem when we speak out on our issues - USCIS is offended that we have issues and wants to come hard on us.

    What do we do? I am fine with USCIS rejecting or approving my application but reject it or approve it without putting me on hold for 10 years. Is that too much to ask?

    It is the resume fakers and document fakers and the rule breakers who should be afraid of reaching out to people. The reason why we are in the mess is because of the greedy employers and ignorant and equally greedy employees. Remember the GREED brought American economy down.

    Totally agree - but also remember - it is everybody's greed. During the Y2K days, consulates were approving visas left and right, I there used to be a one page LCA with H1b and I remember those companies were under pressure to bring people in - had clerks doing immigration paperwork in tonnes and then getting approvals at rapid pace.

    If immigration always be of same standard - with standard measures to weed out resume fakers and fraud - good people won't get affected.

    If someone wants to go back in life and point at things in past - they must go back and see if they always did the right thing.

    Thats why I do not fully agree with UN. I agree USCIS are going tough - but not all companies or all immigrants are fraud because they lobbied or because economy is down or because anti immigrants are influencing them





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  • Madhuri
    09-30 01:40 PM
    I love to see Obama in White House too. My only concern is who drives his Immigration Policy. Sen. Durbin? The provisions in CIR 2007 were scary.

    I am here legally in this country from Sept 2000.
    Applied for GC in March 2006 (EB3 I), filed 485 in July 07, used AC 21 in April 08 and now working on EAD.

    I already had backup plan for Canada. If I wanted to keep my Canadian PR current I had to fulfill the 2 yrs out of first 5 requirement and was required to relocate to Canada in Aug 07. After July 07 fiasco and getting EAD, I thought of giving up on that back-up plan. It was not an easy decision, but we decided to bite the bullet and were thinking that AC-21 memo and EAD are good enough safe-guards for any denial if and when it comes. Also other thing I thought as it is it's going to take ages for my date to become current by that time at least my child's education will be done (he is in high school) and he doesn't have to go through relocation pains as far as school is concerned. He has already done that 4 times in last 8 years. So all in all we were satisfied with the decision to abandon Canadian PR and using AC 21. But now all of a sudden I see there are so many denials for straight forward AC21 cases and moreover if Obama wins then immigration policy are driven by Durbin. AC-21 is the thread that I am hanging on to, if that goes away then what....just don't want to think about it.



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  • Refugee_New
    01-06 03:56 PM
    When (so called) indian leaders will learn from Isreali counterparts ??

    Didn't Narendra Modi followed the footstep of Isreali counterparts by killing innocents in Gujarat?

    Its upto Indians to decide which type of leaders we need. Like Gandhi or Modi.





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  • nojoke
    01-03 04:22 PM
    Listen to this, The US attacked Iraq and that accomplished exactly what the terrorists want. Terrorists want to see chaos and disruption. I believe the US is losing the war on terror and the results from the failed Iraq invasion can get worse, since that may have generated one dozen Jihad style attackers to be unveiled in 5-20 years from now.

    India should not attack Pak and spend tons of money like the US did. Instead, invest all that money in secret services and let them penetrate the enemy line. Let the secret service perform a detailed investigation of sources, then apply snipers or other ways to take perpetrators down.

    The last thing we need now with this dreadful economy is another war. Palestinians are already starting the whole fire again. We do not need one more war.

    Wrong. First iraq war is not war against terrorist.
    Second, pakistan already is doing Jihad against India. They don't need a reason to start a Jihad. Their obsession to destroy India is so much poisoned in their blood and they really don't need a reason for the Jihad.
    Third- It is easy only in movies to use snipers to take down these men. Plus there are thousands and it is virtually impossible.
    I agree that war is a tough choice and probably our politicians use the drum beat to get votes. And probably there won't be a war. But some of the rationalizations give here in this forum is funny.



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  • panky72
    08-08 10:39 PM
    HERE COMES THE BEST JOKE OF THIS THREAD

    I got a RED dot for this post.

    Comment - "Racist Joke".

    I also got a red dot for my joke:confused:. Never used any foul language. Comment left was "This type of "blonde jokes" or "sardar jokes" etc are not really suited for a skilled immigrant community forum." I don't understand why do people give Red dots even for jokes. The title of the theread is Ligthen Up.





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  • satishku_2000
    05-16 02:56 PM
    I know where Senator Durbin stands on illegal immigration issue , he is totally for amnesty/legalization of illegal/undocumented people in the country. According to him its ok if someone is totally undocumented and stays here but its not ok if someone does consulting and documented and pays taxes while working and waiting for the green card to be approved. Isn't it height of hypocrosy?

    Where do people like mbdriver and senthil stand on the issue of legalization/amnesty for illegal/undocumented people in the country? If the legalization were to happen these are the kind of people who complain saying illegal aliens have slowed down our green card petetions. If legalization were to happen processing of every petetion at USCIS will slow down considerably. I will not surprised if 485 takes 4.85 years or 48.5 years or 485 years ...:)

    Which one is a bigger problem 12 to 15 million people totally undocumented or perceived misuse of visa petetions by few bad apples.



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  • logiclife
    04-12 04:54 PM
    Many/most of us here have worked like crazy dogs most of lives, followed the rules, and played by the book. "Everyone" does not have your cavalier attitude towards truth.

    My problem is not with consultants or nurses or doctors or magicians or whoever else is in line. My problem is with those who claim to be legal aliens but who routinely break the rules (by indulging in kickback schemes like splitting their salary with their employer).

    IV is a community of/for legal aliens wanting to become legal immigrants. Rule-breakers and others don't belong here; just because one hasn't been caught cheating the system doesn't mean one is legal.

    There are thousands of real estate agents who charge 3% commission for sale of homes. Buyer's agent gets 3% and seller's agent gets 3%. It takes a total of 6% in commissions of real estate agents when you sell your house.

    Of those 3% commission that each agents get, the pass on 1% to the agency. Like if a Remax or century 21 agent gets $3000 in commission, he/she has to give $1000 to the agency and keep $2000.

    SO going by that principle, "kickbacks" as you would call it, would not be legal? Right?

    Everywhere, a portion of revenue, if the employee generates revenue for the employer goes to employer. That's how employer keeps his lights on and feeds his/her family.

    Now there are some who exploit this to their advantage. And that should be fixed. One way to fix it is to limit certain holds and loosen the grip of employers on the greencards petition of employees. Completely destroying the consulting business is not the answer to that as this bill tries to do.

    If you are working "Like a dog" then you should get paid overtime for anything beyond 40 hours. Its a part of negotiation and its your responsibility to negotiate that with your employer before joining the project.





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  • hiralal
    06-21 07:06 PM
    Unseen guy ..Thanks for the reply.
    In that case it is another reason to stay away from immovable assets ..I guess if we are ever in such a situation and try to plead with them (USCIS), then they will just say ..well you should have known that you are on "TEMPORARY STATUS" before you bought a house.
    (just as they said, H4 people should have known what they are getting in to ....when told qualified H4 people cannot work) !!!



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  • walking_dude
    09-30 09:17 PM
    After the bail-out bill failed in the House, Obama immediately posted a response reassuring Americans and investors that the leaders will come up with another soon.

    Contrast this with McCains partisan blaming of Obama for failure of bailout, while it was him that pulled the stunt of rushing to Washington to 'rescue' the bailout. After failing to show the leadership of his own party -with majority of Repubs voting against the bailout (a clear indication of leadership failure and ineffectiveness of McCain Presidency in passing anything through his own party!), he found it convenient to Obama.

    And it was Obama who proposed raising FDIC insurance to $250,000 to which McCain has (thankfully) chimed in.





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  • 485Mbe4001
    10-01 05:25 PM
    http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Immigration.htm


    Barack Obama on Immigration
    Democratic nomine for President; Junior Senator (IL)

    America has nothing to fear from today's immigrants
    For all the noise and anger that too often surrounds the immigration debate, America has nothing to fear from today's immigrants. They have come here for the same reason that families have always come here--for the hope that in America, they could build a better life for themselves and their families. Like the waves of immigrants that came before them and the Hispanic Americans whose families have been here for generations, the recent arrival of Latino immigrants will only enrich our country.
    Source: Obama & McCain back-to-back speeches at NALEO Jun 28, 2008

    We need comprehensive reform, like McCain used to support
    Senator McCain used to offer change on immigration. He was a champion of comprehensive reform, and I admired him for it. But when he was running for his party's nomination, he walked away from that commitment and he's said he wouldn't even support his own legislation if it came up for a vote.
    If we are going to solve the challenges we face, you need a President who will pursue genuine solutions day in and day out. And that is my commitment to you.

    We need immigration reform that will secure our borders, and punish employers who exploit immigrant labor; reform that finally brings the 12 million people who are here illegally out of the shadows by requiring them to take steps to become legal citizens We must assert our values and reconcile our principles as a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws. That is a priority I will pursue from my very first day.

    Source: Obama & McCain back-to-back speeches at NALEO Jun 28, 2008

    Recognize the humanity of immigrants: Todos somos Americanos
    Ultimately, the danger to the American way of life is not that we will be overrun by those who do not look like us or do not yet speak our language. The danger will come if we fail to recognize the humanity of [immigrants]--if we withhold from them the opportunities we take for granted, and create a servant class in our midst.
    More broadly, the danger will come if we continue to stand idly by as the gap between Wall Street and Main Street grows, as Washington grows more out of touch, and as America grows more unequal. Because America can only prosper when all Americans prosper--brown, black, white, Asian, and Native American. That's the idea that lies at the heart of my campaign, and that's the idea that will lie at the heart of my presidency. Because we are all Americans. Todos somos Americanos. And in this country, we rise and fall together.

    Source: Obama & McCain back-to-back speeches at NALEO Jun 28, 2008

    GovWatch: Anti-immigrants fuel xenophobia, but 45% increase
    Barack Obama said at a Palm Beach fundraiser on May 22, "A certain segment has basically been feeding a kind of xenophobia. There's a reason why hate crimes against Hispanic people doubled last year. If you have people like Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh ginning things up, it's not surprising that would happen."
    Obama needs to be more careful in his use of statistics. If he is going to blame Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh for "ginning up" hate crimes against Hispanics, he needs solid data to back up his allegation. The hate crimes statistics are wildly inaccurate--and a subsequent modified claim provided by his campaign was also off the mark.

    Lou Dobbs of CNN has repeatedly made use of flawed statistics, but there is no excuse for resorting to equally flawed data to attack Dobbs and his ilk. Hate crime offenses against Latinos rose from 529 in 2003 to 770 in 2006, a total increase over three years of about 45% [not even closed to double].

    Source: GovWatch on 2008: Washington Post analysis Jun 4, 2008

    Encourage every student to learn a second language
    Q: Is there any down side to the US becoming a bilingual nation?
    A: It is important that everyone learns English and that we have that process of binding ourselves together as a country. Every student should be learning a second language, because when you start getting into a debate about bilingual education, for example, now, I want to make sure that children who are coming out of Spanish-speaking households had the opportunity to learn and are not falling behind. If bilingual education helps them do that, I want to give them the opportunity. But I also want to make sure that English-speaking children are getting foreign languages because this world is becoming more interdependent and part of the process of America's continued leadership in the world is going to be our capacity to communicate across boundaries, across borders, and that's something frankly where we've fallen behind. Foreign languages is one of those areas that I think has been neglected. I want to put more resources into it.

    Source: 2008 Democratic debate at University of Texas in Austin Feb 21, 2008

    Need to look at different aspects of immigration reform
    We need stronger border security. We are cracking down on employers that are taking advantage of undocumented workers because they can't complain if they're not paid a minimum wage and not getting overtime. Worker safety laws are not being observed. We have to make sure that doesn't lead to people with Spanish surnames being discriminated against. We have to require that undocumented workers go to the back of the line, so that they are not getting citizenship before those who have applied legally.
    Source: 2008 Democratic debate at University of Texas in Austin Feb 21, 2008

    Have border patrolled, surveillance, and deploy technology
    Q: Do you think your vote on the border fence or the implementation of it was wrong?
    A: The key is to consult with local communities, whether it's on the commercial interests or the environmental stakes of creating any kind of barrier. The Bush administration is not real good at listening. I will reverse that policy. There may be areas where it makes sense to have some fencing. Having border patrolled, surveillance, deploying effective technology, that's going to be the better approach.

    Source: 2008 Democratic debate at University of Texas in Austin Feb 21, 2008

    Increasing the legal fees on immigrants is not helping
    It is important that we fix the legal immigration system, because right now we've got a backlog that means years for people to apply legally. What's worse is, we keep on increasing the fees, so that if you've got a hard working immigrant family, they've got to hire a lawyer; they've got to pay thousands of dollars in fees. They just can't afford it. It's discriminatory against people who have good character, but don't have the money. We've got to fix that. We have to improve our relationship with Mexico and work with the Mexican government so that their economy is producing jobs on that side of the border. The problem is that we have had an administration that came in promising all sorts of leadership on creating a US-Mexican relationship. Bush dropped the ball. He has been so obsessed with Iraq that we have not seen the kinds of outreach and cooperative work that would ensure that the Mexican economy is working not just for the very wealthy in Mexico, but for all people.
    Source: 2008 Democratic debate at University of Texas in Austin Feb 21, 2008

    Deporting 12 million people is ridiculous and impractical
    The American people want fairness, want justice. They recognize that the idea that you're going to deport 12 million people is ridiculous, that we're not going to be devoting all our law enforcement resources to sending people back. But what they do also want is some order to the process. We're not going to be able to do these things in isolation. We're not going to be able to deal with the 12 million people who are living in the shadows and give them a way of getting out of the shadows if we don't also deal with the problem of this constant influx of undocumented workers. That's why comprehensive reform is so important. Something that we can do immediately that is very important is to pass the Dream Act, which allows children who through no fault of their own are here but have essentially grown up as Americans, allow them the opportunity for higher education. I do not want two classes of citizens in this country. I want everybody to prosper. That's going to be a top priority.
    Source: 2008 Democratic debate at University of Texas in Austin Feb 21, 2008
    and so on .....



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  • sanju
    04-07 05:51 PM
    I agree, new H1b is not our concern..well not directly or immediately.
    maybe the way to approach this is to ask that a PERM/LC once approved be considered as fulfilling the requirement for any certification needed for the job- in any case if it's the same process, it amounts to useless duplication to keep certifying a job again and again...

    Duplication, triplication of work to file H1s. That is what anti-H1 guys want. They want to make the system so difficult that filing H1s renewals will be impossible. It is possible to talk to people who are ready to listen. These guys are in no mood to talk. That is why suggesting them anything will be like talking to a wall. IV should oppose this bill totally and completely. We should all educate everybody we know, as Administator said, we should inform our friends and employers to get their support.





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  • thatwillbeit
    10-03 12:36 PM
    Excellent post dtekkedil

    You reiterate exactly what I have in my mind





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  • senthil1
    04-07 10:20 AM
    Under what provisions they will make H1b harder? Main test H1b can be hired when there is no US worker is available. That is reasonable. Today's situation it is easy to prove that no USA worker is available. Some restrictions will make TCS and Wipro to hire US workers(If you get gc you are US worker) with market pay also apart from H1b. The companies which will run completely on H1b will not grow. Only bad economy H1b persons cannot be hired. Because of this law H1b hiring may be reduced by 50%. But I think bill may not get much support. But some point of time may be after a few years it will come(may be they may stop completely H1b) as H1b hiring is in so crazy level. It is better to control now by some way instead of getting backlash after some years. Now most of H1b persons are having view that US citizens are lazy and lethargic and not employable. That is not true. Most of Desi companies are following law. But some sections of law is making mess so it needs to be corrected.
    It’s very easy and hip to blame everything in this world on desi companies but they are not completely to blame here. Consider this scenario. They are two ways to get H1,
    1. You are already in US, i.e. converting from F1 to Practical training, Practical training to H1. This is an easy option for companies because you are already in US so they come to campus interviews or fly you to there company headquarters for the interviews.
    2. Now what about the people who are outside the US. How are companies going to interview them, screen them and select them, you cannot give a job to somebody outside US by interviewing them on the phone, you cannot fly them to US for interview because it is costly and has visa issues. Desi companies have an advantage here because they are interviewing the people in India and those people are working for them before they file H1. Not just big desi companies like TCS, infosys, wipro etc take this route but even American companies like IBM operating in India are do this. Big companies like Microsoft, Intel, and Cisco do not get first crack at these filings but the labor pool is increased so they do have a chance to hire them when they come to US. People transfer all the time between companies when they are on H1. I know a lot of people who are working in Cisco and Microsoft who came to US on H1 through desi companies but later on accepted full time positions in Microsoft, Cisco and other companies.

    Now I am not defending desi companies nor did I ever work for desi company but I am telling you the reality. Even mom and pop desi companies are doing some service by providing a medium for employees and employers through consulting services. The only and biggest gripe I have against desi companies is that they are exploiting the h1 employees by keeping bigger margins on the H1 hourly rate.

    Now if you want to reform H1, you can do things like give H1 based on credentials like UK does, you get points based on years of experience, education level (Masters, phd, bachelors etc) and give the people the ability to change jobs at will during the period of H1, that will eliminate a lot of exploitation and make it easier for companies to hire people on h1. This will eleminate some mom and pop desi consulting companies which are the middle men.

    The law makers (democrats) who introduced this so called law to reform H1 are actually trying to kill H1 in the name of reform. They don’t have the backbone to come out and say H1 should be abolished but instead they are taking the back door to kill the H1 through these draconian measures.





    unitednations
    03-25 02:53 PM
    UN,
    Any stories of AOS applicants porting to self employment under AC21, that you could share with us?

    Given your explanation on risks involved with porting to a small company, I wonder how self employment plays out in an AC21 scenario.

    Thanks very much, as always.

    I know many people think about it but they don't have the kahunas to actually execute it. I am not aware of anyone who has tried it and was open about it with uscis.

    In my case when my 485 was pending I went self employment route. I had to give updated g-325a to show employmnet history and I put it right there for officer to see at local office interview. He actually made an astonishing face and I told him that it was allowed and 485 was pending and I can do what I wish during this time. I also told him that I was not my ac21 employer I was just doing this while 485 was pending and I was porting to another job after my 485 was approved. I gave him offer letter and company tax returns from the ac21 employer that I hadn't joined yet.





    prioritydate
    01-10 10:18 PM
    First of all, thanks for converting my argument about Europeans and native peoples into Muslims and non-Muslims. Shows us where our respective prejudices and biases lie. I am very happy when my comments on any situation are turned into a broad 'us vs them' thing. It just shows us that our primitive and primal instincts from the time when we split from the apes are still alive and kicking in some people. Its pretty fascinating for me.

    Secondly there is a difference between military strikes (retaliatory or otherwise), and acts of massacres. Pretty much the same as there is a difference between military confrontation and ethnic cleansing. If you condone and defend the latter, then you are pretty much defending ethnic cleansing. Striking Hamas targets are military strikes. Holing up a hundred members of an extended family into a house, and then destroying the house is an act of massacre. When we defend acts like the latter one, we defend ethnic cleansing.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/massacre-of-a-family-seeking-sanctuary-1297577.html

    Why you are not raising hue and cry for Sudan massacre? Oh! muslims killing muslims or muslims killing Xians! May be that is fine with you!